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Monday, January 6, 2014

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Approximating Parent's and Death from Child's Delayed Birth Record

Approximating a parent's death from the child's delayed birth record probably sounds pretty incredible, but in the search to document the birth's of the children of Julius and Frances Chick Talley, that is exactly what the delayed birth record for Sagasta McConnell Talley enabled me to do.

Frances was living to be a witness

I was also very fortunate that Frances who was born about 1875 was living to validate her son's birth in 1941.  I had documented this family in Union County, South Carolina, on censuses 1910 and 1920. They moved to Fayette County, Pennsylvania sometime after 1930. I was not able to find them on the 1940 Census until now because I had no clue where they were living.

I wanted to find documentation of my great uncle, Julius, and Frances and I was hoping that a delayed birth certificate on one of their children would reveal where the family had moved to.  Frances' maiden name is Chick, the same surname as some of my maternal ancestors.  Even though she is related by marriage, I am curious about who her parents are and if we are related in some way.

"South Carolina Delayed Births, 1766-1900 and City of Charleston, South Carolina Births, 1877-1901," images,  [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Operations Inc, 2007. Original data: South Carolina Department of Archives and History, Columbia, South Carolina. ( : accessed 11 Dec 2013).
Frances, Martha, and Hasco in 1940
Sagasta applied for a delayed birth certificate while living in New Jersey in 1941. Even though I have not located him yet on the 1940 Census, I searched the 1940 Census and found Frances (widowed) living with Ulysses and Martha Gill in Jersey City, New Jersey. Martha was one of the six remaining living children out of 13 total on the 1910 Census.  She must have been named after my 2nd great grandmother and mother to Uncle Julius. Also in the household was Frances' son, Hasco.

"United States Census, 1940," index and images, FamilySearch ( : accessed 06 Jan 2014), Frances Tally in household of Ulysses Gill, Ward 8, Jersey City, Jersey City, Hudson, New Jersey, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 24-208, sheet 61B, family , NARA digital publication of T627, roll 2407.

From there I also discovered what I think is the Social Security Death Index for Frances who lived to the age of 94 (May 1969), however, this will need to be confirmed.  I am hoping this will reveal who her parents are.

Along with Sagasta's mother being a witness on the delayed birth certificate, a woman named Gertrude Sims of Union County also verified information about his birth. Sims is another ancestral name on my maternal side. 

Cousin fun on Facebook 

I could not find a death record for Julius.  Amazingly, my cousin Rolanda has also felt inspired to search for more information on this family. She is a great researcher, and has always been able to find things I did not know. Even though she is asking if I knew anything about Hasco C. Talley who I discovered living in Newark, she reveals that members of this family lived in New York. Ten years between censuses can cause you to miss important information like that. I am excited that she has also found the name of Hasco's wife and their burial site. She even shared the dates of his enlistment in the army.  I know she would have eventually looked in the 1940 Census for Hasco.  I am just glad she asked me so that we could put all of this together. What fun!

I wonder if Julius is buried there?  I cannot really go by the age at last birthday on the delayed death certificate because it says Julius was 42 when he died.  I know that cannot be true because I found him when he was 53 years old on the 1930 Census.  So we need to figure out if Julius died in New York (if he even lived there) or New Jersey.

So many clues are coming to the surface that I will need to review each one individually.  I am finally pleasantly overwhelmed by all the information accessible through historical records online. I cannot weight until Rolanda weighs in on this.  At any rate, I do not think it is a coincidence that Rolanda has been researching the same branch of the family at the same time and also asked me about Hasco whom I just discovered.  We have been searching this family for over 15 years. Something tells me she is about to discover living cousins. 


  1. Hi Robin,

    I have three different years for my great-grandfather's year of birth: 1888, 1889, 1890. The earliest record I have for him is the 1900 census which gives his birth date as June 1890. All of the censuses thereafter except 1910, the year is 1890. His WWI draft card says June 1888 and for WWII its June 1890. He entered June 1890 on his social security application. Finally, a funeral record gives his birth year as 1889 and death cert as Jun 1888. Do I go with the date of June 1890 since it was the most consistent one used?

  2. I tend to use the earliest record or record taken nearest to the date if the event, and then I make sure I reference the all the others. Those who come after you can then see all the different references and then make their own judgement. I do not leave out any record, but I do leave my opinion.

    1. I like to go with the earliest date also but never thought to reference the other dates. I will start to do that from now on. Thank you!

    2. You are welcome, Tara. I think it is good to keep a reference all the documentation we find and well as share our opinions on each. It boosts the integrity of our work.

    3. Sure does. I'm working on a new blog post for this great-grandfather. I will include images/links so readers can verify the other dates for themselves and arrive at their own conclusions.


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